Spotlight: Hold My Hand at Twilight (Jdrama)

S2 E27 /  Caitlin from the NoSleep4Dramas podcast and blog joins me for a look at the Japanese drama Hold My Hand at Twilight. 

🇯🇵 We explore the world of Jdramas and how they compare to our favorite Kdramas. We dig into the themes of creative ambition and the coming-of-age journeys. We also explore some of the things that frustrated us about this drama, and detail why we’d still recommend it because of its fabulous fall vibes and found family.

🏆 We list the shows that have us binging right now (Kdramas, Chinese dramas, and Jdramas), give quick recs—including Miss Incognito, First Lady, and Typhoon Family—and share why certain dramas just pull us in. Plus, we shout out found family stories and unique settings. 

⚠️ Spoiler warning! Our wide-ranging conversation touches on the following shows: Hold My Hand at Twilight (J-drama deep dive with spoilers!), Mysterious Lotus Casebook, Mobius, Miss Incognito, First Lady, Typhoon Family, Would You Marry Me?, Romantics Anonymous, Tokyo Tower, Who Saw the Peacock Dance in the Jungle, and more.

Enjoy!

Links: 

Caitlin’s podcast: https://www.nosleep4dramas.com/podcast 

Caitlin’s blog: https://www.nosleep4dramas.com/

Crime and Mystery Dramas with Caitlin:

https://howimetmykdrama.buzzsprout.com/2435348/episodes/17494458-crime-and-mystery-asian-dramas-with-caitlin

Transcript

Hold My Hand at Twilight

SPEAKER_01 0:08

This is the How I Met My K-Drama podcast, and it's all about K-drama origin stories and recommendations. I'm Sarah Rosette, and today Caitlin from the No Sleep for Dramas podcast is here, and we're doing a spotlight on the J-Drama Hold My Hand at Twilight. Hi Kaitlin, how are you? Hello, hello. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you again. You were actually on another episode where we talked about crime and mystery dramas. So I will I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But for anybody who doesn't know you, why don't you give a little just kind of introduction to yourself?

Caitlin and the NoSleep4Dramas Podcast

Currently Watching

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Oh, okay. Uh I'm Caitlin. I'm the host of the No Sleeper Dramas podcast. I love crime dramas, so that's mostly what I watch. But as I've said on the previous episode, I also love Japanese romance dramas. For some reason, that's the romance type of dramas I gravitate towards. So of course we had to come back and review one of them. Uh I've been watching dramas for 20-something years, and um my podcast started from a blog that I started in 2020 and has just rolled into podcasts and guesting on other people's podcasts and a YouTube channel and all this stuff. Well, we're all caught up now, so let's talk about what we're currently watching. I'm actually probably maybe recording a podcast for the Chinese drama Mysterious Lotus Case Book. I love that title. Yeah, it's such a good title. I think it's based off a book. I think that's where most of Chinese dramas are based off books on it, actually. But I have a recording, I have to record a podcast review for it tomorrow, and I have the last three episodes. So that's what I've been binging this week, other than this Japanese drama. Then I also have to watch Mobius, which is a crime Chinese drama from this year. I have to binge that next week for a podcast recording, so that's probably what I would be bitching all next week. Um, other than that, the only two Korean dramas I'm currently watching, the two airing ones, are Miss Incognito. I'm super behind on it. I've only watched like the first two episodes, but I love it. It's so good so far. Um, and then I also am really behind, but I'm also watching First Lady, oh yeah, which is airing on Vicky right now. And that one's about I've only seen the first two episodes. So I don't know how crazy it gets, but it's basically about a woman who pretty much helped her husband become president. And the night he gets elected, he like says in the news conference like they announce he's president, they get in front of the cameras to like do a speech or congratulate everything, and he turns to her and is like, I want a divorce, like in front of everybody. Whoa. So then the whole drama after that is like her figuring out why and like what's actually happening and things like that. Sounds good. That was a little more mod. Oh, yeah, I'm totally a hundred percent positive he's cheating with somebody, and there might be like a secret child running around somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah, you one might think, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

So I'm watching a ton of other stuff too, but that's pretty much what I've been focusing on.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, the high points. Okay, yeah. Well, I'm watching Miss Incognito as well, and I'm a little bit further, so I won't say anything, but I am enjoying it a lot, and it's uh interesting thriller. I mean, it does have really heavy thriller elements in the first two episodes, I think. Yeah, and it changes tone a little bit, but I'm I'm still loving it.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

So yeah, I love that she was just like she came in to interview as a bodyguard, but she's not like classically trained as a bodyguard, she's really using like street smarts, yeah, and like just her own intuition to like navigate this whole thing. Yeah, she's like self-taught bodyguard skills, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, I like her a lot. I like the whole setup of the show. So I'm enjoying that. And then I'm also I started Typhoon Family. I love I Jun Ho. And so, of course, I had to check that out. And I really I'm enjoying it. It's a totally different pace, it's much more it's set in '97, uh, IMF crisis crisis. And so there's all these historical things, and the vintage tech in it alone is great. I mean, it's so funny. You know, they have to send faxes and they have pagers, and then the story is very uh compelling, like the characters and stuff. So I'm enjoying all that. And then um I started, I watched a couple of episodes of Would You Marry Me, which is a rom-com that's out. I think it's on Hulu. Yes. I like the uh actors in that one, but I kind of got I haven't been able to keep up with it because like you, I've got other things. I was re-watching this one and kind of trying to keep up with some other stuff. So watching that, and then there's a um a new one out on Netflix called Romantics Anonymous. And yeah, um I've heard that's good. Yeah, I I watched the first episode on that, but then I had to take a break on it. And I I will definitely go back because they dropped it.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, they dropped all eight of them. I think it's eight episodes, six or eight. Yeah, a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

And they did them all at once instead of like the dripping it out one a week. That's so painful. So this was nice to know. Okay, I can just watch it whenever I'm ready. Yeah, is there another one out as well?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Well, is this one is it's one of those like Korean Japanese crossovers. Oh, yeah. So it's like a Japanese drama, but it has a Korean actress. The main lead is a Korean actress, pretty well known. So I'm always interested in those type of things because they seem to be popping up more and more. Yeah. Um, but there's a Japanese drama. I'm waiting for it to all be done because I'm pretty sure I'm probably gonna binge it. But it's uh it came out on Vicky yesterday, maybe the day before, called the Yakuza Bosses.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I've heard people talking about this. Love something like that. I have been looking for this drama since I saw the TikTok edits, and so I'm like, thank god Vicky finally picked it up because it came out at least three months ago. Like it's but it just came to Vicky recently. I can't remember the full title. It's like the Yakuza boss's beloved or something.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yes, I've I've heard people talking about that, and I was like, okay, yeah, I surely that will so many people were talking about it. I thought surely that will show up on some streaming platform somewhere, yeah. Yeah, and look at it. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

What I get from it is like, and this is just me going through TikTok and it's about it's this about this woman who works at a company, and her boss is secretly like he either his family was Yakuza or he's took over the family business. So he's like, by day he's her boss, but by night he's a Yakuza bother. So he's she like has this crappy fiance too at the beginning. So marrying my husband in a way, not like the whole rebirth type situation.

Non-Spoiler Section

SPEAKER_01 6:55

But right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll definitely be checking that one out too. Okay, well, let's talk about hold my hand at twilight. I've got a a summary. I ask perplexity to make a summary for me because sometimes the ones online are they either give away too much or they're just or yeah, they're too long or they don't make sense. You know, you're like, wait, right, what is this? What's the plot? So I'll read this one and disclaimer I'm gonna do my best to pronounce these names and hopefully I will get close. And if I don't, I'm sorry, especially with the actors and actresses' names, but I'll do my best. All right, so Zura Mame, a bright and energetic young woman from rural Japan, moved to Tokyo to follow her childhood friend and fiance. After being dumped, she finds herself living in a house chair with an aspiring composer, Oto. Together they inspire each other to pursue their dreams amidst the challenges of life in a big city. It stars, I believe that you say it, Hirose Suzu, playing Soromamame. And she was also in Who Saw the Peacock Dance in the Jungle? And Nagase Rin plays Oto, and he was also, I haven't seen um Tokyo Tower, but he was in that, and I know that that's on Netflix as well as Who Saw the Peacock Dance in the Jungle? And then the screenwriter is Kitagawa Iriko. Hopefully that's close enough. And she also wrote Orange Days, which I haven't watched that, but I've seen it mentioned online. I think it's kind of a old school classic. Have you seen any of these others that these actors or the screenwriter has done?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Who saw the peacock dance? I want to watch. I just haven't gotten around to it. I also want to watch Tokyo Tower. I think it's also on Vicky as well. If you might be too and because I want to say it's an older woman, younger man. It is. I could be wrong. Like significantly older. Yeah, it's like a huge age gap. Yeah. And that's one reason why. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I think she's in her 30. I think she's 30-ish. Yeah. I've seen the poster. Yeah, poster in the blur.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah. I don't think I've seen either one of these actors before. Okay. Yeah. And I don't think I've seen anything from I think everybody's been new to me.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah. I did see the female lead in Who Saw the Peacock Dance in the Jungle. And she plays a completely different type of character in that drama. So, and I actually saw that before I saw this. So I was like, oh, that's the same actress. And this role is so different from that one. So it was it was cool to see her do different things. So we're going to do a little uh non-spoiler thoughts rating, ranking section. And I have a feeling it'd be pretty short because it's only 10 episodes. So we will keep it kind of vague. So, what were your thoughts on Hold My Hand at Twilight in general?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

So I rated this out of 10. I rated this uh 7.5, I think. I think that was my rating. Yeah, 7.5. I almost gave it an eight, but like the more I thought about it, I was like, Yeah, I 7.5 in my rating scale. That's it's okay. It's not bad, but it could have been better. Yeah. Um, I I really liked how it progressed through the story. I thought it was slow for one, um, which I don't mind a slow romance, but this seemed to be real slow for only 10 episodes. I also did not like the female lead at first in the first couple episodes, and I can tell you why in the spoiler section. Yeah. Um, I eventually grew to like her character, but the first couple episodes I was very thrown off by her character. I loved the cinematography and the lighting of this drama, um, which is I one of the things I always like about J dramas. Um, and then I also liked a lot of the messaging, like especially when it came to pursuing what you want in life and the ambitions of and supporting other people's ambitions. Um, and then I also like the found family, like within the group of people living in the house and the neighbors and that type of thing. As we all know from the last episode, I'm a sucker for found family. So um I do, I did like that of this drama as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah. So for me, I I understand. To me, it felt like it was I love, I enjoyed the characters, the setting. I especially liked the, I don't know if you wouldn't really call it a lodging house, but you know, she this woman takes people in, and so it's kind of like a shared house situation. So I enjoyed that part of the story and how they interacted in the neighborhood and you know, the scenes by the fire pit. I loved all that. And there were parts of it that I thought were so funny that really made me laugh. Some of the characters just I enjoyed some of the dialogue and, like you said, the themes about pursuing your dreams. I enjoyed that part. I did think it was too long, too. I think it should have been maybe like eight, maybe six or eight episodes. And near the end, I got really frustrated with it as well because of the way they handled some of the plot lines. And yeah, you know, but I feel like this is one of those dramas that the ending didn't spoil the whole thing for me. I wasn't like, I I can't, you know, it didn't ruin the whole drama. So I rated it a nine out of 10 because I just enjoyed the basically the characters and the found family so much. And I think I'd rated it lower, and then I kept, but then I kept thinking about it and I was like, you know, I really did enjoy those first sections and the the interactions among the characters was what I enjoyed the most. And then at the end, there were some turns that the story took that I was like, I just I just don't understand why they did these things, but we'll get to that probably, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Okay, so I guess that's plenty for non-spoilery. I would say this is actually, I think it's I think when I started watching it, I thought it was gonna be a rom-com, but I think it's more of a coming of age story. Would you agree with that or not?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, especially for Soramame. Yeah. Like, and I think that's one of the other things I didn't particularly like, like the drastic imbalance between her character and Odo. And again, I don't want to do spoilers, but like I felt there was not enough balance between their characters and the story and how it was told.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah, well, let's get into it because I think that we want to talk about it and it'll just be easier to talk about it. So, so keep going. So, this is spoilers. If you haven't seen this and you want to watch it spoiler-free, go do that and come back and listen. But so now we're going into spoilers. So keep going. What were you thinking? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

So it this isn't like a new story. Like, we've seen many, many stories where it's a girl or guy who have grown up in the countryside, has never lived in the city, and now moved to the big city and like has a culture shock and everything. But I really felt that Soramame A was written like a child for like the first three episodes. And like I get what she was naive, but like I feel like she was overnight, like written overnight. Like, yeah, like for example, to have a ring presented to you and you automatically think it's a proposal three times, basically. I'm like, really? Like that I understand, like you only had one boyfriend, but how I don't see the connections here. So I really thought the story kind of gave her character it was an injustice to her character because I think they just overly made her character naive to the point where it was like unbelievable. Um, like it made her look stupid, which I don't think she she obviously wasn't. I mean, she was a genius when it came to fashion. But I think it was there's a dynamic or there's like a balance between over naivety, nitty, whatever you call it, yeah, and just like unrealistic portrayal of that. And I thought that went over the edge a little far. But then also it's like, okay, we have her story, we get the story is her, like the whole plot is her. But I felt like Otto could have had more of a story to him because yes, he still had a coming of age type thing, but it was definitely on the back burner. And we didn't really know, like, we learned so much about Sora Mame's family and her background and like why the way she was, and we didn't really touch on his character whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, that was one of my things that at the end I was like, but wait, what about him? Why didn't we learn some more about him and his background? Because I was curious, like, he obviously has a strained relationship with his family, his parents. Right. Because he had, yeah, there's that scene where he's thinking about calling, but he doesn't, and there's a few references, but there's nothing else except that. And I feel like they were trying to really show the contrast that he's a very steady, he keeps his emotions in check, you know, he just kind of goes through life, and she's energetic and impulsive and a people person and makes friends easily, and he does not. And I feel like they really leaned into that, but maybe a little too much with her in the beginning. And then with him, there were questions, you know, that I had when it ended. There were questions about several characters that I was like, what is going on here with this thing? Right, right. Yeah. I mean, maybe if it I feel like it should have either been a little bit shorter or a little bit longer to fill in these gaps, you know. So and I think because I had seen Who Saw the Peacock Dance in the Jungle, and this actress played such a different character, it was kind of interesting to me to watch her play this character that was so over the top. And um, but yeah, I know what you mean. I did feel like it was a little too much for her to be that naive. But I there, I think part of it too for me was in the beginning, some of the the writing was so good, some of the dialogue was so good that I was like, oh, I love it. Because like when he tells her to go ahead and go back home because your family's expectations are like a balloon. And you know, the longer the bigger it gets, the more the harder it is to go back. And then there was something else. Oh, the scene where she goes to see her ex after he breaks up with her. I don't know why she would go see, like, I mean, I don't know if she just wanted more closure or they just wanted to have that scene, but there was something to me, like when she was in that scene that felt very real, like quite like she was upset he was sharing her memories, their memories with his new girlfriend. And she was like, our memories trash, rubbish, you know, just things that like, and you threw those away. And then she was like, Oh, I'm the outsider here now. We were in a relationship, but so I thought some of that was really well done, just as far as like the the way things were conveyed with the script. Yeah, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

It also was unclear. Speaking of the boy, like the ex-fiance boyfriend. I also felt like the story didn't give a good timeline in the beginning because it was unclear how long he had been at Tokyo before she moved there.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Um, I think it was supposed to have been maybe like a year or two.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

But I wasn't sure either thought. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. Because it it definitely did not make sense that he would like. I mean, it was obvious he was she was moving there after he had been there for a while. But I wish they had kind of more drawn that out because it because they hadn't defined that time. If you thought it was a shorter period, it would not have made sense if he like the fact that he met this other girl and moved on.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

That he had moved on or whatever. Yeah, I agree. That was very confusing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Well, but also throughout the entire drama, I kept thinking, do they not have telephones?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yes, I know. That's my complaint with so many dramas that they couldn't talk to each other at all. Yeah, I find that very frustrating all the time. Um, anything else on Oto that came to mind or you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Or um, I loved his relationship with the land owner of the landlady. I don't remember her name because it also wasn't defined how long he had been staying there, but I felt like he had been staying there a while.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Right. Yeah, I got the impression that he had been there maybe a year or so, or maybe longer.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

A year or longer, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I liked I liked his relationship with the landlady a lot.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah. That well, that was one of my other questions was what other characters did you enjoy?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

So for me, I did too.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

She's like she's like just living her best life, in her like kind of being a mentor to artist, and then just helping her community and having her cocktails and doing her art. It's like that's like the dream, right? She's living the dream that we all want to live someday when we retire.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

A rich old lady who just buys a sauna and can hang out there for the entire time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

And then just takes people in out of the goodness of her heart. But she, I really enjoyed her the way she interacted with the with the the two leads and the way she helped them without being overbearing. And it was just a great relationship. And I also enjoyed the agent, his uh music agent, I guess is what she'd call her. I can't remember her name either. But she just cracked me up. She had some lines that I was like, oh my goodness. Like when he calls her and she says something about, oh, did you think you were an important person? And then she was like, Oh, that was my snide boss. I'm sorry. And things like that. I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

But I love that she was just very blunt. But also, you could tell. I like the fact that she didn't fall down the stereotype where where on one hand with Sora Mame, we had the very stereotypical what happened with the fashion designer thing. I love that she didn't fall into the category of she still supported him no matter what, and like she could see the potential when he couldn't, and she advocated for him and gave him his chances and did not follow the money or something like that. Because she really could have been a stereotypical move that she could have done as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, and she said she was plotting her rebellion because they had the what they wanted showed you sometimes things will happen, and you'll think, well, why did this person get this break? And I think a lot of times it's like it's portrayed in the show where it's like somebody's relative or friend wants this and they're important, so therefore, but so she she stood up and made it a convincing argument that that he should be able to debut on his own or have a good singer for a debut. Right. But oh, with him, I was gonna talk about the music. I thought the music was great in this. Did you enjoy the music?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. OSTs were great, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, yeah. And I guess a lot of the songs I I Googled the the band that sings the opening song or the the song that where they meet in there, both listening to the same song. And um, it said that it is a band that has a vocaloid composer with a female singer and uh A lot as I was reading the description, I was like, oh, this is kind of similar to what they showed in the drama. So there's a little echoes of real life in there. So yeah, I just I thought that was interesting. And um, yeah, I was trying to think if there was any other a lot of the minor characters I wanted more from. I would have liked to have had more about the her friend whose dad owned the restaurant. And yeah, because she was a good character and interesting. And her dilemma was, I'm inheriting this 100-year-old restaurant, but it's not really what she wanted to do. So she had that dilemma too, of finding her own path. And I thought that would have been interesting to see more.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah, or like the other female uh designer who obviously was jealous of Sorry. I wish we had gotten more of that background, or even like a resolution, because she kind of just blew up one day, and then they were like, All right, I quit. And then she was just like, Peace, I'll take your role. That was never really concluded or anything like that, or explained them why she was such like it was obviously clear she was jealous, and we understood why she was jealous, but there was never a resolution between her and Soramame, and like never a conversation of like how horrible her attitude was towards her. They kind of just let it happen and then did not explain or had any conclusion to that.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, yeah. This drama was not real good about concluding, like making a satisfying conclusion with some of the relationships.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

I wasn't even really satisfied with her going back to the designer either, in a way.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

At the very end when they meet at the bar.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

At the very end.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, I was like, and I've noticed this lately a lot in K-dramas too. It's like we have to have a redemption for everyone, even the people who've been really terrible. And I'm like, I'm okay if we don't have the redemption. And I wasn't real happy with the whole storyline with her mom and her grandmother. I feel like that had a lot of I feel like the it was a manufactured choice. I didn't understand it. It wasn't portrayed well why she had why the grandmother was like, Well, you have to make this choice. I guess the grandmother was saying, I'm not going to help you raise her. So therefore you have to choose to stay here or you have to choose to leave. What did you think of that part?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I think it wasn't well, I think I don't think it was portrayed as a real hard choice for the mother. Like it was clear the mother was always going to choose the fashion. Yes, no matter if her if the grandmother gave her an ultimatum or not. So I didn't really see the point of the grandmother giving her an ultimatum. Because maybe in her mind, the grandmother was like, Well, if I give this ultimatum, she'll feel guilty enough. Maybe. But I in my mind, I'm like, if she stayed, she would have resented everything. So she was never gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Um yeah, and my other thought was could she not move to Paris and do this thing and have childcare? Like, can she not hire somebody to watch her kid? I mean, to some of these things, I'm like, it's not ideal, but you know, it there are solutions beyond abandonment. Right. I felt like that was overly dramatic or not explained well, I guess would be the other way to say it.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Right. And I think the grandmother also kind of made her make that choice too. Like it wasn't her a hundred percent just abandoning Soramame, the grandmother also kind of contributed to that. Um, and then also I'm sure, I mean, you could tell the grant the mom didn't mean to leave for 20 something years. The grandmother also was like, I'm not letting you talk to your daughter or see your daughter. Yeah, you she like helped with the abandonment in a way.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Like she instituted it and made it continue, yeah. And so, yeah, some of that was just not well thought out, I think, is like for a reason for reasonings behind what happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Well, I think it also was done in a way to make not that like the landlady was bad or anything, but I think it would also to emphasize how good and supportive the landlady was. The contrast, right? Yeah. So you have like this contrast, this over contrast, the landlady being like, Oh, I'll take care of you, I'll support you, I'll do whatever I need to do, I'll have conversations with the grandmother to like ease her worry. But the grandmother was pissed the entire time because she had run off the Tokyo. Yeah, she wouldn't come back.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

It's almost like, okay, so it was the landlady gave them both of them autonomy to make their choices, and the grandmother did not. So that was the big thing. Yeah. Right. Well, um, yeah, we talked a little bit about like the setting and the atmosphere, the cozy little house that they lived in. I love that. I love the little fire pit scenes, and it feels like a very fall type show to me, even though parts of it take place in winter and spring is like so cozy. I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, it's very cozy, yeah. Yeah, I think partially of that too was the lighting, of course. They had a lot of um sunburst, yeah, like lighting, which helped a lot. Um, but yeah, I think the the conversations around the fire and around that I do not know the name table, the warming table. They have a specific name for that, and I never can't remember it either. It's a common household item in Japan. You see it everywhere because there's like a heater underneath of it, so that's why the blankets there, but a lot of conversations happened around that table, which was really nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Well, um, let's see, I jotted down a couple of things that just I wanted to talk about because I thought they were interesting. There was a lot of exploration of creativity because Oto he didn't really come into his own until I mean this is like the rom-com element of it, is he didn't come on to his own until he met her. And then he could write more about his emotions. So, like he wasn't in touch with her emotions, and she was all emotion. But I thought it was interesting the way like he had choices to make with his career, like, was he going to show his face or not? And her creativity came out once she realized that she really enjoyed fashion and was interested in it. I thought their creative journeys were interesting. Although with hers, I felt like we needed a little hint at the beginning that she was could draw or or even like to like clothes or fabric or something, because it just all that seemed just way too easy.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Well, it seemed like, oh, my mom is this famous fashion designer. I of course got it through genetics.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

So it's like it's fine. You're you're blessed in this way. One of the other things.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Speaking of Otto, I like we got so much in her thinking process and like what was her inspiration with certain things. I wish we had gotten more of that with Otto because he like, yeah, you could understand that she was essentially his muse, but you didn't understand what inspired him or or made him write this song or made him do any of it. And I wish we had gotten more explanation of that, or at least a little more key into his thought process, right? Because, like, you could tell they he especially like he fell for her day one when they ran into each other in the crosswalk. She eventually did, but he was the first one to like her. Because she was just such a mess in that first two or three episodes.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

He was just like a silent observer, and I think that was part of it was like he was supposed to be just a good guy, like a super green flag. Yeah, and he would take care of her and help her because he couldn't he couldn't abandon her, he couldn't leave her in her state she was in. But then we have Otto running into or meeting the other woman. I think is it Sierra or Sierra, yeah, Sierra? That's how I pronounced it. I don't know. But he also rescued her, and so yeah, and I had a lot of issues with her storyline. I was like I did too. I did too.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

I also did not predict she would come back to into the story.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

No, me either. I was shocked.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I was like, Whoa, like yeah, I thought once he had left the date, they were done.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, and when she came back, I was like, it was the same thing. It's like, oh, she can sing and she's a preschool teacher. Where did all this come from? I wanted some more uh detailed.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Also, like, why did she scam him in the first place? Because like it was clear that everything, even like my mom is sick, I need all this money, was a lie. So, like, why was she doing it in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

And then later when we meet her, she's got a job and she's working in a kindergarten. And I'm like, did she have this job before? Did she just is she not hard hard on her luck now? I mean, there were lots of questions with her, but yeah, anyway, so I think going back to Oto, they were trying to show that he's like just this good guy and he is very dependable. But for him, there was the scene where he um was talking about the metronome and um they named the band Beats per Minute. Um and he was saying that about her resting heart rate was 73. And I thought that would have been a perfect thing you could have looped back to. Like at the end, he could have written a song called 73 or something, and it would have made it all it would have given you some more about him and how she inspired him. But we got those little things sprinkled in, and then nothing else really. Yeah, I felt that was a little there were opportunities there to develop it a little bit more. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

And then there were some really heavy subjects in this trigger warning for suicide and um uh depression and abandonment. I was surprised that they went into that as much as they did. What were your thoughts on that? Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yeah, I was also surprised, but I mean, again, I as I said in our crime drama episode, that that's one of the reasons why I like Japanese dramas or Japanese romance dramas, is they do bring in these real concepts and real things that everyday people can relate to, no matter if you're Japanese or any nationality. So I wasn't surprised that they did bring it in, but yes, they are very heavy topics for what you would think is maybe not a rom-com, but like a melodrama. Like it's not it's even heavy for like a melodrama. Yeah, um, and this is light melodrama, it's not that like it doesn't have a ton of angst, in my opinion. It does, but like not like, oh my god, everybody's in danger, like we're crying every episode or something like that. Right, yeah. But yeah, there's yeah, I I was surprised, but I also wasn't surprised because again, as I said, it there was some real world concepts that you always come across with Japanese dramas, and this is just another thing. Um, but I was surprised on like how dark I dark is not the word I'm looking for. It's like how heavy what you were saying, how heavy some of the topics they brought up were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yeah. And I then like they talked about loneliness and how you sometimes you just need to talk to someone. And yeah, you know, I thought they portrayed that really well is that sometimes just a phone call or somebody to talk to can help you through a difficult time. So I liked some of those things about it. Let's see what else were I put down a whole bunch of things about symbols because like the water comes up over and over again in almost every scene with the two of them. There's water somehow involved, like the fountain in the beginning and water hose and gardening stuff later. And a lot of her fashion, yeah, bubbles, a lot of her fashion is water inspired in um the toys. I thought that was really interesting how they used that. And I thought that was more to show that they were maturing, that they were still sort of in this transition phase between childhood and adulthood.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

I liked how they like each thing had like a different episode. They would pull something else out of the box. Yeah, little hacky sack things or the bubbles and stuff. What else?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

I want to talk more about Sarah Sierra. Yes, yes. Let's do, let's dive into that. And then also like with the on top of that, like talking about the her sorumame's assistant co-worker Pazuki. That would that's what it was. Yeah, yeah. So on one hand, okay, for one thing, I did not predict that she was a lesbian. Me either. Which I liked. I liked that different, but it also I didn't like the fact that it was like it fell into a cliche trope, what you get a lot with queer characters where they are assholes.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, she was terrible at the end. I was like shocked, yeah, bad she was.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

She was an asshole at the end because it just like on one hand, like it was kind of understood. I get it, like she liked Soramame, she was jealous that Otto was clearly they liked each other, so she wanted to cause a rift or whatever. But I mean, she was basically the stereotypical second love interest that like was never gonna get the leads, but it was just a woman liking a woman versus a woman and a man type situation. So, on one hand, it was a cliche trope that you see in a lot of romance dramas, a little different because she was a lesbian. But I also just did not like the fact that it was also like a trope when it comes to queer characters a lot of the time. Yeah, not necessarily maybe nowadays, they've gotten better, but like back in the day, that was a lot of the trope that came with queer characters. They turned out to be horrible people. Um, and so I did not I did not like that. And I don't think I would have, even if she wasn't a lesbian, even if she was straight and she was liking Otto and was jealous, I still would not have liked her character do that either, because it was clear she liked whoever. She definitely had a crush, but it I just did not see after everything that her character went through with Otto and Soromame and like having her them supporting her with her depression and like making outfits for her and her becoming the sinner thing. Like, I did not understand the shift in that. Like, I know it didn't make sense because then it caused a three-year rift. I know. I game was like, if do telephones exist? I know whoever invented that delete the message thing in the app made.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

That was frustrating. That was so frustrating. That was the point in the drama where I was like, okay, they're just drawing this out to make us suffer, you know, to make it make us have that longing and pining. And it just made me frustrated. I was like, okay, thumbs down on this, thumbs down on this. I don't like this part because it seemed so contrived. There were so many things like that. And and then going back to Sierra, when she calls her to apologize, she does have a phone and she can call to apologize in that scene. But I when she when she called her, and I was like, this is three years later. So she causes this rift, and then they live with it for three years, and then suddenly one day she just decides to me. It just seemed like everything was very manufactured on the the last, like probably quarter of the show. Yeah. Because it felt like like the fashion thing happened so easily, and then it fell apart very predictably, you know. I mean, right, you could see that he was gonna he was frustrated and burnt out and he was gonna take her designs. And then, you know, it's like you have to have the big everything's lost, but I just felt like there were so many things that they were that didn't seem to naturally happen, it didn't seem like people would really do these things. So that was very frustrating to me.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Or even if they were gonna do those things, the length of time and the pacing didn't make sense. Yes, like because, like, on one hand, yeah, it was very cliche for this designer to steal her her things because he was jealous of her, he was older. But it as you said, it seemed very manufactured, so she would go to her mom and reconcile with her mom and like and so it seemed very forced in that direction. And then with Hazuki, who like never in a million years liked her in that way, more of like an admirer. I want to alert fan.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

I think you're you're a great designer, I think you're gonna be an amazing designer.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah, yeah, like he never gave off I have a crush on her, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

And again, it was like a lot of these misunderstandings. If they had one conversation, it would have solved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if Zuki had like talked to Otto, he would have resolved that, or vice versa. Like it was foresome. That wasn't really a foresome because no one liked the other people. It was just Otto and Soramei who just didn't communicate.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

I know, which is so so frustrating as a viewer to watch that and the longing and the and I understand that back in the beginning there was a moment where I think she was supposed to realize that she that he liked her, but he had said he wanted to pursue his music. And so I think she was like, I'm gonna break the tension here and we'll go on and do our separate paths. So I feel like that was fairly well handled, but the rest of it, as you're going along, got very tedious for me. And then yeah, with the Sierra character, have you ever seen Do You Like Brahms?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

There's some characters, it's I haven't watched the entire thing, but I've seen scenes from it and everything.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, well, there's there's some characters in there that do some of these same things, like Sierra did, and that like when I watched that, I actively disliked those characters so much because of what they were doing. And this was the same thing, it was so annoying. I thought it was really annoying the way it played out, right? And then we really didn't get any resolution for her is she right? It's all okay, she apologized, and they're a couple at the end, and so it's all fine. Right. I just don't know how you'd move on from all that, but for anyway.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Well, then even with the fact of like uh Sora Mame going to Paris with her mom, and then they do a three-year jump, and there's this voiceover from the mother saying, like, oh yeah, Paris wasn't for my daughter, she came back after a year. And I'm like, wait, there's a three-year jump, but she's been in Japan for two of the three years. Like, why? Like, why oh, I thought she was supposed to come back after three years. No, I mean, maybe I misinterpreted it. I thought the mom said she was back in the countryside for at least a year, if not longer. Okay, like she had been there and then like designing for the country people and her grandmother or whatever. And I'm just like, again, it's like, okay, well, you are still stuck in the countryside with a telephone. Like, what and also when she when she when Sierra called her, at least to me, it was clear they had talked prior. It wasn't like Sierra had called her out of the blue. So I'm like, is Sierra just calling her for the last three years and Otto has not picked up a phone?

SPEAKER_01 41:12

I guess. I guess. Well, I think what happened was the other character, the her assistant, uhzuki, he says something to Sierra, and she realizes that, or I thought she realized that the truth was going to come out that they weren't a couple, and that kicked off the whole thing, and that was why she called and everything. So I thought I if that never happened, I guess we would have just continued on in this suspended animation of everybody not talking to each other. But yeah, I thought she was in the countryside for a while, but I didn't realize it was two years. So I feel like it was that long, at least.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Maybe I mean, I don't remember. I it was a voiceover from the mom, so maybe I misheard it or something. But it to me, I was like, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Yeah, to have a miscommunication. Yeah. So let's talk about the end a little bit because I feel like there were so many things that were frustrating about it that I felt like they were going for an affair to remember at the very end, you know, where like they're at the he invites her to the concert and then she doesn't want to go, and then they meet, they're supposed to meet up later, and then they're at the crosswalk and her battery phone battery dies. At that point, I was like, okay, this is just becoming absurd. And I felt like they were going for an affair to remember and Romeo and Juliet, you know, because he's up high and she's down low, and they're having the balcony moment. But at that point, I was like, I'm not feeling it, I'm not feeling what they want me to feel. I think I just found the whole thing very annoying.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

I thought it would have been better if they actually did meet where they first met. Like the whole point of that was going to the crosswalk where they met, and then because he was 20 minutes late, he she left. I'm sorry, if you've loved this man for five years at this point, I wouldn't leave after 20 minutes. He said he was gonna be there. It's just yeah, I I think if they had met in the crosswalk and maybe in the middle of the street where they first bumped into each other or done something with the headphones, like I didn't understand the whole scarf situation. No, I didn't like because I was trying to think like, was she was she wearing a scarf when they first met in the crosswalk, which I don't think she was.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Because it was not winter when they met, it was spring.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

So, like how did he even know that scarf was hers?

SPEAKER_01 43:32

I think there's another scene where he puts it around her, like when they're by the fire pit or something. I think he puts it on, but yeah, I don't there wasn't enough significance attached to that to make it a big point at the end.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

I did love his lines though, when he was speaking to her. Um, and then obviously the whole hug thing at the end was very sweet. And but yeah, I I agree with you. It was really drawn out, it did not need to be, they could have shaved off like. Like two episodes.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah, just like do like skip, skip the whole time jump. But that's usually my opinion about every time jump I've ever seen. I don't think I've ever been like, Yes, this is gonna be great. So like skip that and just go to the crosswalk and have that. I mean, the kiss was good and it was all very it was it all seemed like everything, like they were gonna be a couple, you know. Right. But yeah, there was a whole lot of things that could have been just yeah shaved out of that last.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

I liked their chemistry. The way he looked at her for the entire drama was very nice. Like he stole glances for like of her and um she not so much. I think she was a little more chaotic, but I mean, she even she had some nice moments.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I felt like as a couple, they really did know each other because they live in a house share and they like knew each other's habits and and you know were were friends in many ways. He really did like her first and always liked her romantically, I think. But I felt like they had a good rapport with each other and they really talked to each other about the things that mattered. So I enjoyed that part of the drama, and I always like a drama where the people are really talking to each other because a lot of times it's the rom coms sometimes are so focused on the romance and the swoony moments that you feel like, well, maybe they'll be okay in the future, but yeah, like what will they talk about over breakfast or something, you know? And I feel like they would be a solid couple later on after then they get through this drama of the three-year separation or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

I also did not like, I think it was like episode eight or something, when Sura Mame got mad at him for doing something I can't remember. I thought she was very unreasonable with a reaction, and I got why because I can't she was like thinking she was gonna be abandoned again, but I can't I can't oh he's not moving, that's what it was when he was moving out of the house. I thought her reaction was very over the top, and I was like, Okay, on one hand, I kind of understand because she has not dealt with the abandonment issues that she had from her mom, but on the other hand, I was like, dude, like it's not like yeah, grow up. It's not like he's like never gonna talk to you again, he's just moving into this company-led thing, and he's achieving it. Yeah, and yeah, she didn't later jealous, she did, yeah. And just because you're jealous, because your life kind of fell apart when his kind of I just didn't understand why she all of a sudden wasn't supporting that right when she had been doing it for the entire drama of the city.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

And she knew that was his dream and everything.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

And it did seem very childish, like she kind of regressed back to that.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

And maybe that was just the default of we need some conflict here, so let's let's have her act childish again. Because it really was her, it was both of them like going on this journey with their careers, but for her, it was much more a maturity because she didn't really know what she wanted. She thought she was just gonna get married and and when that fell apart, she didn't know what to do. I thought the scene where she goes and buys the orange juice herself was because in the beginning, and and I in the beginning, she asked him to, I don't know, she asked him to buy a drink or she's like, I'm thirsty. And he buys her that soda or the orange drink. Yeah, orange juice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

I think she just says I'm thirsty.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah, and I remember watching that going, that's rude. I mean, right, you know, and he's like taking care of you and you know, all this stuff. So, but I think at the end, when she buys it herself, that's showing that you know she's independent, taking care of herself. So it's basically her learning to become self-sufficient and be okay on her own, which I guess before she was always with someone, with her boyfriend, with her grandmother. And you know, she's gotta learn to be okay on her own.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and like even with Otto, you could tell he got jealous of her because like the whole design thing, like to him, her life was falling into place really quickly where she got this internship and right was a curious when it came to fashion, like, very easy. But he got over it. He was like, Okay, I'm clearly very jealous of this, but woohoo, I super admire you, you are doing things, whatever. And then just I think that's also why I kind of reacted very poorly to that, because all of a sudden it her life fell apart and she regressed. And I'm like, This man has been supporting you since like day five after he got over the jealousy, and then you all of a sudden, yeah, and maybe it's because she was yeah, yeah, and maybe because she was kind of oblivious to that in a way for a while. Um, and I think also it's just like a bunch of the stuff with him like not being able to design his group's costumes anymore. That could have been rectified with a conversation again. Yeah, it's like yes, so many things.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah, this yeah, it did fall into some of the like very trying rom-com tropes that make me not like some rom-coms because they're very, you know, if you just talk about this, or if you do this one thing, it'll be fine, just pick up the phone and have this conversation, then it's all okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

But I do love that her character was infectious because I think one of the reasons why the the designer, the older designer guy, and and to an extent the other female designer got jealous, wanted to steal her stuff, whatever, is because everybody around her, for the most part, supported her and was like in awe of her and right, like got drew into her personality because she really was an outgoing, enthusiastic, I'm gonna learn as much as possible type personality, kind of like an infectious personality you really can't avoid.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

And I think that was part of her charm, and also her the thing that was annoying about her is that she was like all in, like when she the dress, when she cut up the landlady's dress to see how it was made. I was like horrified. And she did that later with the she took a pair of scissors to the pants, and she's just got that internal confidence in some ways that and and no checks on her emotions, I guess. It's just whatever's on the surface just is always on the surface, and she doesn't try and pull herself back. So, and that can be like when you're around people like that, that can they you can get swept up in there kind of and it can either be a lot of fun or maybe not so much when they're crying on the street and being in the snowstorm or something.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Right, right, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Well, I want to talk about the ending credits, the song that they put at the end. Did you have anything else to talk about that you want to hit on for the the show overall?

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Or no, I think I think we can talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Yeah. Uh I just I've only seen one or two other shows that do this, and I thought it was really fun to have the song and the choreography and then intersperse it with the clips. So is this something that they do a lot in Japanese dramas?

SPEAKER_00 51:05

They do, they do. I wouldn't say it's every single one, but there's definitely especially like the last episode. I I wouldn't say it's either the ending credits for all the episodes are like the characters doing that little dance and playing along, or it's just the last episode and it's kind of like a post-credit thing. I've seen it done a lot. I wouldn't say it's every episode, and it's definitely more in the romance dramas than yeah, like the crime dramas or something. But yeah, I'm trying to remember what is the last Japanese drama I've seen that done. It had to be like pretty proofreader or something.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Either that or it was like the the house one. I cannot remember the name of it, but yeah, I've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

For love, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

No, it's like it's about a real estate company. I'll find it again.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

But yeah, I don't think I've watched that one. There's one that quartet does it, but it's uh it's like a music video of them singing, it's all the main characters singing a song, and they're all dressed up in 1940s clothes, even though the drama is contemporary. So the first time I watched it, it was like one of the first J dramas I watched. And at the end of it, I thought, what is going on here? And at the end of every episode, they're in their 40s clothes and singing this. It's a beautiful song. I loved it, but I was like, I don't understand this. But yeah, I think that I've seen it in that, and then this one I like the how they interspersed the like the behind-the-scenes clips. Yeah, because I thought that was fun to see them just kind of goofing off and acting silly and having fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

So the real estate one I was talking about is your home is my business.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Oh, okay. I haven't seen that one.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Yeah, it's it's fun, it's wacky. The the main, the main woman is she so she plays a real estate person, like a real estate agent. She sells people houses. Yeah, an agent. Thank you. Yeah, and so apparently during the time when she's selling these houses, like the market is like super competitive. And so she gets clients and she's like, I'm gonna get you this house. And she's like super intense about it, like manic intense. And so she like she's like, I must purchase this for you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to get this house for you. So she's really, really intense. Um, but that's also partly the comedy of it all at the same time. Okay. Um, so then at the end of all the episodes, they do go into this like dance choreo thing as well. Um, so yeah, it's fun, it's wacky, but it's fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Okay. Well, I might look for that one. Yeah, yeah. I think it's on Vicky. Well, I think we've hit on everything. I think both of our assessment would be maybe watch this for the fall vibes and the the found family.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Yeah, I would say that it's okay. It's not the best Japanese romance I've ever seen, but it's also not the worst. I've seen worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Yeah. And for me, like I've decided that when I rate things, like how much I enjoyed it overall is the way I do it. So I really enjoyed most of this. The last couple episodes, I was like, uh, we're kind of getting into the cliches here, and this is the romance that we uh the separation that we have to have, all that. I was like, okay, we can just kind of skip through all this and get to our happy ending and we're good.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

I would say I still enjoyed it. This is one of those dramas that I still enjoyed, even though there were things about it that I was frustrated with.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Yeah, I would I would still recommend this too. Like, even though my rating seems low, 7.5. It I would it's fine. I would still recommend it to people. I think there's a pr I think this also is the type of drama that some people will like it more than others. Like it's like it's there's definitely an audience for this drama, especially with the quiet moments around the fire and like the house and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Yeah, lots of good found family closeness with each with the people that didn't know each other and then they become friends and support each other. Yeah, lots of fun moments like that. Where can people find you and your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Oh, okay. My podcast can be found on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, my blog. Um, it's called No Sleep, the number four dramas. So the blog is no sleepfor dramas.com, number four dramas. Uh, I also am on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

All right. Well, I will put the link to the podcast and the social media stuff in the show notes. And um, if you enjoyed this episode, please take a few minutes to write or review it wherever you listen to podcasts. That will help K drama fans find the podcast. And just thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

All right, see y'all next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Bye.