Healer, Competency, and the Bodyguard Trope with Aimee Robinson

S1 E14 / Aimee Robinson, paranormal and time travel romance author and Kdrama fan,  joins me to talk about her favorite Kdramas, focusing on thriller/mystery shows–especially those with a bodyguard trope.

🎯 We explore Jennifer Lynn Barnes’ psychological triggers, like status, competition, gossip and discuss why they make Healer such a satisfying drama. 

🥇And we list some of our favorite heroes and heroines who excel in competency. 

⚠️ Spoiler warning! Our wide-ranging conversation touches on the following shows: 

• Extraordinary Attorney Woo
• Signal
• The King Eternal Monarch
• The K2
• Bridgerton
• Marry My Husband
• Night Agent
• Healer

▶️ Currently Watching/Planning to Watch:

Aimee: Love and Sword, Snowfall, Moonlovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo, Goblin (AKA: Guardian: The Lonely and Great God), Extraordinary  Attorney Woo

Sara: Queen of Mystery 

Aimee’s website: https://www.aimeerobinsonromance.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:14

This is the How I Met My K-Drama podcast, and it's all about K-drama origin stories and recommendations. I'm Sarah Rosette and today Amy Robinson is here with me. Hi, Ray, Amy. Well, hi, Amy. Let me say it correctly.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hi, nice to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

It's great to have you. So we're going to talk about K-dramas today, your origin story, and healer. We're going to get to that too, kind of dig into that, which is a fan favorite. Pretty excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I can't wait.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Well, tell us a bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, as much as you'd like.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Sure. So I am a romance author. I write paranormal romance and some time travel romance thrown in for fun. I'm a huge lover of uh just storytelling in general. And so when I came into the world of K dramas, it was just like, where has this been? Yeah, I I it it just tickled my brain in a way that I haven't had in a in a long time. And it's it's I just love it. I've definitely fallen down a rabbit hole. Same. Totally the same. Yeah. Yeah. I actually I make my I'm making my husband watch with me. And he is a, you know, he loves me. So he wants me. But and it's it's the kind of thing where I'm watching it with him, but he's like falling asleep in the chair, and then I'm like throw something at him, like, no, no, no, you have to read it. You can't just watch it. You gotta read it too. So again, it's not for everyone, right? But it is definitely something for me. And I just love, I love the way they tell story. I love the way they review. Um, they're just so fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah, yeah. My husband and I have watched a few together that I I try and pick ones that I think he'll be interested in. So he enjoyed Extraordinary Attorney Woo, was the first one we watched together, and he liked that. And then we watched Signal, and he he was really into that. He liked that one a lot.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I think Signal's on my list too of like it. Go back and see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Um, I think that's one of those like bigger ones, too, right? Like more.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Yeah, so it's like one of the classic, and they're getting a season two after like 10 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So with I wonder if it's really well, obviously. Yeah, but like with the original, the original cast.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Okay, well, tell us how did you get into K-dramas? Do you remember what your first one was?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah. So this was several years back, uh, four years ago. And I was taking, I was hearing a lot of buzz about K dramas among some of my writing friends and the writing community, but I didn't really know I I knew nothing. I knew less than nothing. I didn't know what the K stood for. I knew nothing about K-dramas. But they were interesting. But I kept hearing it and then I I learned more from like some of the people in the writing community that I was in. I'm like, okay, okay, maybe I should check these out. Maybe I should check these out. But like I wasn't like super, super into it at the time. Um, and then I took a writing class or it was like it was an online conference, and one of the one of the the presentations was on craft, and the presenter was using clips from a K drama. I think it was Crash Landing. Was Crash Landing on You?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yes. I always want to say Crash Landing into you, but I think that's not the word. But yeah, I think she was using clips from that show to illustrate certain storytelling points. And I'm like, okay, then maybe there's something here. And then I had a writing friend at the time who we she was kind of like an accountability partner. Like we would, you know, meet weekly and chat and kind of go over some story concepts and stuff. And at the time I was writing my time travel romance series, and she's like, Oh, there's a series on Netflix. If you want, if you're interested in K K dramas, you gotta watch this. And it was the King Eternal Monarch. And I watched it, but was I think that came out in like April of 2020. So remember what the world was like back then. And I I liked it, I really did like it, but I like I had like nothing left to give in my brain to entertainment at that point because like the world was so chaotic. So but I I really enjoyed the format. I enjoyed the the way they kind of did that, like the true episodic formula that so many streamers don't do anymore. Like, yeah, they don't need to really worry about hooking you so much because they already got your money for the month. It was just really refreshing, but I couldn't really dive into like the world of K dramas at the time because I had like two brain cells left to function at that time. So like there was nothing to spare. And then I so I kind of got away from it for a little bit, and then I came back with what did I watch? I watched the K2, which is another, it's like I another it's similar to Healer. It's a thrillery, yeah, mystery, Korean-born identity. Yeah, it's got a lot of action, a lot of romantic suspense. It's like the bodyguard trope. And I again it took it took a few episodes to get into in it, which I can sometimes I find that to be a theme in certain certain dramas. Yeah. Me too. But I once it landed, oh my God, I was hooked. I told the family, leave me alone. I was like hooked. I couldn't get enough of it. And then I wanted just more. I wanted more of that specific storyline, like, like, you know, romantic suspense, bodyguard. So I wanted more of it, but life kind of got in the way again, and I had to temper my obsession to deal with like kids or whatever. So laundry and school runs and things like that. I would just let, you know.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah, that's interesting because I did notice that a lot of the people that are big K-drama fans, their kids are grown and they have time. And they're, you know, maybe not retired, but they have more time than somebody who has young kids. And so I think K-dramas, when you get into them, that's a great time to get into them when your kids are a little bit older, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Like, and for context, so when I first watched uh The King Eternal Monarch, I had two children. They were ages two and four.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Oh my gosh. And I I'm amazed you even had time to watch a commercial.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I I to be honest, like at that time, like I was looking for was just something to get my brain from one hour to the next. Like I I couldn't focus on quality entertainment, I couldn't give it like the attention. Your full attention. Yeah. Like I said, life kind of got in the way. And now I'm at the point, my kids are a little older, where I'm like, you know, I just want to get back into it again. And so for the last several months, year or so, I've been like, all right, returning to the things I love, returning to the world. But also I will say, I kind of got there because I've been let down by so many Western media shows that I'm like, what am I doing? Why am I getting like I am so angry with how certain things have come about that I just don't get the satisfaction that I really want. And I yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Because sometimes it's the storyline is disappointing, like the way the storyline goes. And then other times it's because they're canceled. They do a season and then there's nothing else, and they set it up to go on, but then there's nothing is cut off in the middle, or you know, they're like dragging it out. Oh, maybe, maybe, and then like two years later, you're like, Who are these characters? I don't even remember, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I don't remember. Why do I care? I don't even like it anymore. Like, why am I watching it? But there was so there was like a noticeable moment for me where I realized I am just not feeling Western media the way I used to. And that was when Bridgerton season three came out. And I I enjoyed the first season, I enjoyed the second season, the third season perhaps wasn't my favorite couple, but I was enjoying, I was a fan, I was, you know, going to watch it, but I was more there for like the mystery of Lady Whistledown's reveal. And like I that wasn't why I was there. Uh-huh. Netflix did something that I had seen other networks kind of doing, but it hadn't like personally affected me because I hadn't had the interest in a program where it affected uh or was affecting it yet, where they did a thing where the first four episodes of the season one month, and then in the next billing cycle, you get the rest, you get the rest of the show for season three. And I remember very starkly having this feeling of like as a consumer feeling like I was manipulated into watching the show, not on like I I felt like the sh the network was trying to get me to watch the show, not so much on the strength of the story, but on the strength of the intellectual property. Like almost like, hey, it's Bridgerton, you're gonna watch Bridgerton. Even if maybe it's not like the most thrilling season, maybe it's not the most popular couple, maybe we don't, you know, you're gonna watch it. We're gonna get you hooked, you're gonna watch it because it's Bridgerton. And I just and it was okay, you know, but I didn't, I felt like I don't know, a little icky, or I just was disillusioned with the experience, and and I don't know. So then I started comparing it to like, well, how is this different with K dramas? Because I think also around the same time I was watching, oh, what was the one was it called? Marry My Husband.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

And that was releasing episodically, I think, or it was like Yeah, like maybe two episodes a week or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was watching it, and I very much had the sense that like, no, they're working to earn my eyeballs. Like they are working really hard with their story and everything, yeah. Yes, and they're they're working for me. Like they they want you there, they want me and they are trying hard, and I I'm I'm hooked. It's just it felt very different. So I've so then since then I've kind of been exploring more Korean dramas, Chinese dramas as well. And I've been having just a blast. It's just it's just like entertainment for entertainment's fun again. Like I don't have to worry about whether they're going to, like you said, get it get renewed for another season, or are they going to screw up my favorite characters? I did that with the like I was watching, I watched the night agent on Netflix, and I just the season, the second season just didn't hit. And I was so disappointed because I love the first season so much. And I have such higher levels of satisfaction when we watch the dramas that I'm like, okay, why am I fighting it? Why am I fighting it? I'm just gonna stick with what I enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

What delivers they always they well, I mean, sometimes there are misses, you know, no show's perfect, but but yeah, I remember I would say I get more satisfaction out of watching a K drama, even if they mess with the ending or they have a character that I was like, I didn't really like that arc.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Like he had an arc and we got an ending, which oftentimes we don't get in Western media, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, they're they're better at telling like a full complete story because it's built into the format.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

It and that is just that little thing is so satisfying. Just the fact that you know, like, hey, all your loose ends are gonna be tied up. You're gonna find out what happens, you're gonna find out the mystery, you're gonna find out like the couple's gonna do their thing, and they they uh they they work for my eyeballs, like they they they hook me much better for sure.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Yeah. Well, the thing is, Netflix is kind of doing uh with K-dramas, they're trying to do that kind of split season thing a little bit, but most people I've heard from are not a fan of it, and we'll see what happens. Hopefully, it doesn't last.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah, I have I right now I am watching my dramas on Vicky, and I know they don't have all the new new ones, but like there's so much to choose from. Like I would rather just watch something that like is hitting my spot for like whatever I'm interested in in that moment. And and also like their structure, I just I I'm the structure of their service is really beyond reasonable and enjoyable.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yeah, yeah, there's and there's plenty to find over there. Yeah, you're not gonna be like, oh, I run out of shows.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Right. There's plenty to find, there's plenty for free. If you know, and I just I'm having a really good time over there. And I I've been watching I've watched a few Chinese dramas lately as well. And it's just really fun. I I like it. But yeah, so we'll see. I don't know. I've also heard like some of the like Netflix is doing second seasons, like you said, for some of the popular shows, which I don't know how I feel about.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

I don't, I think it's kind of yeah, and most most people, including myself, are like, I don't know. We'll we'll see. We're a little we're hesitant to go all in. Yeah, yeah. Same.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It's feeling like manipulative in some way. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

It is, it does a little bit, yeah. Well, give us five of your favorite dramas. It could be like a themed list, or it could be, you know, like your current top five, because most people's top five's kind of fluid.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, so I had to say, so I haven't because I'm just kind of getting back into the swing of things right now, I haven't had like a full top five of like, yes, these are my top five. My top two right now are definitely healer and the K2. Can you sense a theme? I love a theme. Yeah. Um those are because they hit all the spots for me in terms of what I'm looking for with there's you know, the action and the thriller elements, but there's also like the romantic uh line. And I'm a romance writer, I love a good romantic storyline. And the the thing that I love is also like the comedy thrown in where you would not expect comedy. I agree. And and that is where that's something that I've found different in K dramas than in like other Western media, especially like thrillers or action uh shows or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Is Yeah, some of them are so serious.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, and they they take themselves very seriously, like very seriously. But like you have the comedic relief characters, you know, and you know they're there because you they have their own song, they have their own soundtrack, like the dopey music, like the bumbling music. And you know, they'll come in and they'll they'll they're there for a scene, and it's always like a a short scene, and whatever's happening, like the characters, they have like the critical thinking skills of a donut or something. Like it's just there to make you laugh and to more importantly, I think, to show the viewer what the very serious bodyguard character thinks of humor, like how they respond to humor, and it's showing you another side of the characters by having these like you know, these funny family members or like the funny employees or or whatever, which like Western media doesn't really do that kind of thing where like they'll have, I mean, they have some comic relief, but not to the not to the extent. Not it's almost like a little slapstick sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes it gets a little too goofy for me, but most of the time they bring it back or they go all goofy, like some of the shows, like there's one that got gas goss gas electronics, and it's like so goofy. Yeah, and they're laid leaning into it as much as they can, right? You know, and that's a little far for me, but yeah, most of it I like it when they just sprinkle it in or when the humor comes from these interactions that the characters have, that it's you know, innate to the characters and and the way they do things, like the odd couple pairings and stuff. Yeah, those are fun. I love those. So yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, I think with the K-dramas in general, they don't just give you like a teaspoon of a certain thing, they tend to throw the whole bottle in. Yes, that's very true. And it's and a lot of times, like that's great, like you want that, you know. But then yeah, like with the slapstick comedy, kind of like, okay, they're being a little dopey here. But you know, sometimes it works, and sometimes it's like the break that you needed. Like, I uh I remember having like, was it descendants of the sun? There were a few of those types, and it's like it was like just enough to break up the heavy material of whatever you were watching.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

But I get it, yeah, I totally hear you.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah. Well, let's talk about healer. Since you mentioned healer, so one of you messaged me and you said you loved healer, and as you're re-watching it now, you're seeing these Jennifer Lynn Barnes has done research on things that we love and that draw us into a story, and you're seeing all of those in Healer. So you want to talk through some of those? Because I know that you have I know you have a passion for Healer.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

A little bit, a little bit. So and and Healer is not a new show for anyone who is like new to it. I think it came out like 2014 or something, but I feel dated, and I think that's important for to people for people to know. It still feels very current, and the only difference, the only like thing that would give it away as not being from 2025 is that the heroine is wearing skinny jeans. Otherwise, it the tech, everything, it just feels awesome. So it's the the show, the premise is it starts off with they're they call him a night errand boy, is basically a glorified thief for a hire who's highly capable with his stealthy, sleopy kind of skills. And he is jaded, he's so jaded, he just wants to earn a lot of money so he can buy an island somewhere. And and the heroine is a she's a reporter for a a B level entertainment website, kind of like gossip type place. Yeah, yeah, like a TMZ kind of thing. And and of course, you get into a a little bit a little bit of like wrong place, wrong time, and who heal the healer is like contracted to find out more information about her, so he's finding reasons to stay close to her. But there are things throughout the whole show that just like hit the parts of your brain that people who enjoy consuming fiction are hardwired to like. And like you said, Jennifer Lynn Barnes, she came up with this list. There's like seven things, eight things. At the at the core of the show, I it's a it's a bodyguard romance kind of a romantic suspense kind of show. But the one of the things that Jennifer Lynn Barnes talks about is the use of power and status or like wealth and resources. Both of those kind of go go hand in hand a little bit. And the show is set up so there were these rivals, not only are there rival brothers who are are competing for you know, one, there's they're trying to gain information over the other. There's a there's like a mystery of like a there's a convoluted mystery backed story going on, right? Yes, it's very complicated, but having that competition not only between two media companies, but also between two brothers and and family in Korean culture is very has a as a much closer bond than a as depicted in a lot of Western media. So to see there's already that built-in tension. There's already that that built-in tension there. And I remember related to the two the two rival media companies, oh, I forget what podcast I was listening to, but it was kind of going over like the history of K-dramas where they talked about how like in the beginning, like in the 90s and 2000s, there was competition between like the networks and the producers and the government owning the different networks, and like there was a power grab there. So there was a trend in certain K-dramas where media companies played roles in the dramas themselves. So there you'll you would see media.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Yes, I've noticed that, and I was like, wow, that's like a real company, it's isn't it? Yeah, you know, because in the you know, normally they would use like a made-up company.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Right, right, right. So this is the same kind of thing. There's there's two media companies, and they both have, you know, owned are now being spearhead by two brothers that are trying to, you know, one is is more of the uh aggressor against the other, but um feeding into that, one of Jennifer Lynn Barnes' principles of what are the things that people are hardwired to like about fiction is this idea of gossip. Who better to talk about gossip than media companies? Um and that's been a tool, that's a tool that's used throughout the whole show. Of who controls the message? You know, you have a victim coming forward that the heroine is defending, and she writes an article about this victim's experience. And the the politician who is who is named as the aggressor for this victim now puts out his own counter message where they're like slandering the victim. The victim didn't know what she was talking about. So it's this power of gossip. Who controls the gossip? Who controls the like it's a competitive game between these two? And it's it's built in, you don't even realize it. You don't even realize that you're you're there for like that these specific things are are things like you're you're just like tickled to to be interested in. Jennifer, she talks a lot about gossip and how in her view of things, like the brain is not doesn't always do a good job of like drawing a line between what's real and what's make-believe. So when we hear that that's why like this media war is so interesting, right? Because it's like he said, she said, Who do you believe? I don't know what he said makes a lot of sense, but she's like the victim. Are we believing her? And she's sided with the heroine. So of course, like we know she's right, but they're way more capable and like they're the villain, you know. So it's fascinating, it's fascinating. And then with healer himself, he does he does he plays the Superman Clark Kent thing, so which is just so fun.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

He's like the classic, like lone wolf. I'm gonna be on my own, I don't need anyone. And like the romance is him gradually admitting that he likes her and wants to be with her, yes, or and you know, she breaks his walls down, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Totally, yeah, absolutely. And it's genius because he's next to her the whole time, he is with her the entire time. He is is guarding her because she becomes a target because of what she wrote and because of other there's another mystery related to like her parentage. He's next to her the whole time, but he is so capable in what he does. He plays the bumbling idiot, he plays like this goofball who is so he's like a scaredy cat. He's he's always with her, but as a as a healer, as like the incredibly capable knight super thief that he can be with his like awesome like martial arts skills and everything. It's so fun, it's so fun, it's so fun. He makes the interactions between the two so satisfying because I mean he always gets them out of the jam, you know. Whatever they're in, he's he always gets them out, but he makes it so that she believes she got them out of whatever she gives, he gives her the opportunity to still have like that agency that she needs because she's also a very vulnerable character as well. I love her because she she is like a low-level reporter, but she thinks she's bigger than she is because she has goals and she wants to be a big reporter, yeah. She walks, she has in her pocket and she walks around acting like it's two million. She needs people to see a the worth that she knows she has, but that other people haven't actually validated yet, you know. And one of the other things that I love about Healer, and this is actually a lot a concept that Brandon Sanderson mentioned in his in his writing when he's teaching, but a thing that that viewers love, or readers, or whoever who's consuming fiction, we love competent characters behaving competently. And if no, it's I agree. Think about like Batman and Joker, okay? You love Joker because he is so capable at messing Batman's plans, like he's so good. You know, Joker is going to execute to the 11th degree on whatever diabolical scheme he's got going. He's gonna do it in Flair, he's gonna make sure everybody knows about it, he's gonna do it in a way, and Batman is capable, but like Joker's more capable. And the reason we know that like we're there for that ride is because Batman's the good guy, and we know he's gonna win eventually, but you love watching that. Like, who's gonna eke out on top? Because Joker is such a capable villain. That is what Healer is the character of Healer. He is so capable, he is so capable that he is right, his disguise is his plain face. He stands right next to her the whole time and keeps his identity a secret in the most like unbelievable ways that he's figured out how to keep his identity a secret, both because he needs to, but also like to keep her safe. There's a bunch of reasons why he can't have anything else. He really is. He's hiding in plain sight, which is so satisfying for a viewer to watch because you're like, How is he gonna pull this off? I'm staring in his face. Like, how is he gonna pull this off? And seeing how how capable he is in doing that throughout the whole show is such a thrill. It is such a thrill, even when it comes to the romance, because you're looking at I mean, their first kiss. They kiss without seeing each other, and it's not creepy, it's not weird, it's not like you know, you know, but the way he pulls it off is like that man, you know, like the whole the scenario of it was just like I can't I you're just excited to see how this grows. And even further in the in the show, they have a date. They have a first date. She's begging, like, can I just have I need to see you, I need to talk, you know. We don't have to see each other, I don't have to like physically see you, but I want to know you. I want to and he finds a way to have a first date with her, like a like a real first date, like movies, movies, all that stuff, without ever seeing each other. And I this is something K dramas do so well. The way they linger on those moments, they tell you how important a moment is because that moment gets its own song in the soundtrack. That moment, no, no, you're serious. It's I know, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Like, and then there's like emotion. There's like four or five, maybe six different angles that you see something from. You see his point of view, her point of view, a lingering shot on like their hand, or like, you know, it's just there's detail added to it, attention to detail, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yes, and they they dig in, like I said, they they don't just give you a spoonful, they pour the whole bottle in on that emotion. And and that is something that Western media doesn't always do. Maybe it's because they don't have the time, they because their seasons, their streaming seasons are shorter, they're what, like eight episodes now, ten episodes? I don't know. Yeah. So you K dramas, they're what, anywhere from like 16 to 20 episodes or 24 sometimes, depending on you know, but they linger, they linger on the hand touches, they linger on and always and and touch is another one of the things that Jennifer Limbars talks about when like you are like when they brush the hair off of the the heroine's face and they lean into like what that looks like on his face, like the emotion there and what it does to him. They they take their time and they are making sure, like the writers and producers are making sure that, like, hey, this is an important part. We're just gonna like sit on it for like a good 30 seconds. We're just gonna sit on this part because this is what you're here for. These are the things that's those touches. Touch is a big one that Jennifer Ling Barnes talks about. And oh, another one, gosh, the beauty, but like uh in K-dramas, it's so easy to see. It's like the the glow up, you know?

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Yes, yeah, yes, and in yeah, in Healer, it's when they have to go get changed into the fancy clothes, and yeah, you get to see how what a gorgeous couple they are once they're all you know in their finest.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

It's always like for the for the big hero, it's always just like just show his forehead. I know. Like, because they don't take the hair like over the forehead, they look a little slumpy, and then it's like, oh, just comb it back, and it's like amazing. It's a new person. Total transformation. Yes, it's amazing. But but yeah, and I've seen that a lot in in the K dramas. I've watched like there's the makeover scene in Marry My Husband, you know, she that was a big makeover scene. Same actress too, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, same big makeover scene. That was like a pivotal moment in that show where it's like, okay, now we're getting the revenge plot going.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

You know, like I'm it was her, it was her decision to to get the makeover instead of like somebody giving like her friend helped her, was like, here, let's, you know, but she was like, I want my hair short. She was like, I want to change, you know. I like that apart, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, I love that. It's it's again, it's characters behaving competently. It's when they are making the moves that are satisfying to the to the viewer. And another com another thing that like Jennifer Lynn Barnes talks about is she talks about like from the viewer's perspective or the reader, you know, same same concept. Whoever's watching the story or consuming the story, once you as a as a as a viewer can get your get into the mind of the characters, you start trying to mentally fill in what happens next and wanting to see how much of the story can you figure out? Are the characters gonna go this way? And that's a sign that you hooked them. You know, when you're so invested that you're now trying to make story decisions on the story that you've been fed, like you want to say, like, I bet you they're gonna go here, or I wonder if that guy's gonna do this thing. That's a sign that, like, whatever fiction you're watching, they've got their hooks in you and they're doing a good job. When you want to continue the story yourself and you and you want to see, am I right? That's a big thing. I want to know if I'm right. I want to know if where I think this is gonna go is actually gonna go there. I it's yeah, it's a great blueprint, but so many of the dramas do it, do it really well.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yeah. Yeah. When you mentioned competency, I was thinking about part Parkman Young. Parkman Young is the actress in Healer, and she's also in another more romance comedy called Her Private Life. I'm pretty sure that's the one. Yes. And she's she works in an art gallery. She's a curator. And part of the reason I love that show so much, it's funny, it's life's got great characters, but it's that she does her job so well there. And it's an interesting look at that life, that world. And yeah, that's one reason I love K-dramas too, is because you see all these people doing different things, but you see them doing it really well. And like in Healer, one of my favorite characters is the Adjima, the character who's back in the the cave in her tech cave doing all this stuff. And for me, okay, if you're if you listen this far and you don't want any spoilers for Healer, skip ahead. Because we've talked generally till pretty general now. I think this is this is a definite spoiler. At the end, when Agima and Healer meet in person and they see each other, and he's like shocked at what she looks like. And if he's not sure, I mean, that is like one of my favorite scenes from the whole show. And I think it's it's she's such a competent character, too, and he is too, and they've kind of formed this bond, and so you get to see them meet for the first time, and that's just that is one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

It's great because for context, Ajima is in her little cave of an apartment that's always dark. She's got these big consoles of of uh screens all around her. She's like the attacker handler person, exactly. Yes. And she's she's great because her hair is big and frizzy and she's crocheting or knitting things, and she's always got her feet up in socks, and she's or she's like rolling out the kimbop and everything. Like she just again, she's so capable that every like she can't be bothered with with trivial, trivial stuff. Like this, these high stakes. I mean, she controls a subway car from her computer while like eating to her, you know, on the side. Yeah, like it's just like a like she's so good at what she does that it it's like you're so capable, and that's so rewarding. Also, another reason why Ajima is such a fantastic character is she can say she says the things that we want to say in our heads, like that we want to say out loud. We want to call people names and her her name that she calls healer are so creative. Like, I really want to kind of like get the I want to kind of understand the context a little bit more, but she says what you want to say. Like if you curse someone out, she's saying it. She she says exactly the things that you think, but with no repercussions, because she's such a a capable character that like even the people who have worked under her through her prior career, they're they're like terrified of her. She's their Sunday, you know. They're, you know, even though she may be going up against her former colleagues in in her job right now, as like this this hacker handler kind of person, they're still like, oh wait, it's her. Oh my god, it's her. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. If it's her, like we can't do that because she's just like so capable. Yes. And and like you want to talk about, like, I won't spoil this part because it was one of those, like, oh, like a shocking moment for me, but like trying to fill it, like we were talking earlier about trying to fill in the details of where are we going from here? I was so terrified because I loved Ajima so much, and you're like, something's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

You're worried for her, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

She's too capable. She's too capable, something's gonna happen. But yeah, she's a great character. Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah. Another one of my favorite healer scenes is at the end when Healer gets to reveal to the dad character who he really is, like his true competency. And you're like, yes, finally, because the dad has always been kind of I don't know about you. Yeah, and so that I thought was a really satisfying ending because he gets to show who he really is and get the respect for that. And that he is, you know, he's very I don't know, not braggadocious, but like he has the skills, but he's humble enough to let her think that she has, you know, manipulated all this stuff to, you know, help her like boost her ego, and he's fine with that. And so I think that's one reason we like him too, is it's like is he could be a very annoying character, you know. Sometimes people who are too are there's a line, you know, when you're how doing competency and you that so that makes us like or that made me like him because I was like, okay, you're willing to let her have the the glory or whatever of of getting of vanquishing these bad guys early on, you know, and and it's totally, you know, thanks to him, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Right. And and doing that also allows you to see the strength in the heroine because she does have a lot to overcome. She has you know post-traumatic stress, she takes medication for her anxiety, but she she despite that, she's like forcing herself to overcome it, and he's always setting her up with the tools where she can lift herself up. And and it's it's great. And oh, such a good show. It is such a good show. That's why I'm rewatching it right now. It's such a good show.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah, yeah. I remember when I watched it, I was like, I kept hearing people talk about Healer, and I was like, I don't know, I'll give it a try. And now about I think two episodes in, I was like, okay, I get it now. I understand the passion for this show because it does do so many things so well. Yeah, it still hits like the romance beats so well, and then you've got the thriller kind of mystery elements in there as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

And the thing, a thing also, like going back to like we talked about competition earlier, the villains are still really capable. And that is what keeps you engaged as well, because you never know for sure. Like, healer is really capable, the villains are really capable. Healer always comes out on top, but there's always a cost.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Yeah, and there's the like you're talking about status. So healer, he's this underground, you know, kind of on the wrong side of the law person. Yeah, and then you've got these other people that they're not doing things that are above board either, but they have the you know reputation and they're respected. And so it's like you have that power and balance there, even though he's really capable. Can he do what he needs to do against this bigger kind of corporate entity thing going on? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

And and there's also like the the bigger uh corporate entity, it there's like it's it's kind of tied into a lot of the political candidates as well. And there's this elder character, character literally called elder. Like he's the elder one, and there's that that dynamic as well of like this this older, more ruthless character who is calling the shots of everyone. People you think have all the power, they don't actually have all the power. They're just like the puppet of the guy at the top.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah. He's like it's he's like the big boss, right? Like they're the you've got baddied lower level, and you're kind of going up the steps to get to the big baddied at the top.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

It's so satisfying to just go through that whole thing. And yeah, that healer is a show where unlike some of the others, you pretty much are are hooked from the time you're dropped into it. Some other K-dramas like have a little slower on rant.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

But but that one, but I I think like dramas and K dramas in general, they they nail, they nail a lot of those elements so well. So if you were to take all of the the the principle, the psychology psychological principles of why we love fiction that Jennifer Barnes puts together. And that's all things like balance of wealth and power, resources, gossip, you know, things a lot of things we talked about. And then you take Brandon Sanderson's viewpoint of competent characters being competent, like we love that, and you mash those things together into a limited episode series that is by design going to deliver satisfaction because of the way it's set up. That is the formula. That's why I think K-dramas hit in a way that other Western media misses more often than not.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Yeah, I agree. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

Yeah. Well, so obviously, your wheelhouse where you like to camp out is like thriller mystery. Do you have any other tropes or genres that you're like, I will watch this no matter what?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Yeah, I am a big fish out of water lover. Specifically, anything where like it's like a fish out of water. So like the heroine finds herself in a situation that is unfamiliar and uncomfortable to her, and she needs to rely on a protective sort of hero to help guide her through that. So um I love and yeah, bonus if there's supernatural elements involved as well. Like time travel is actually I was surprised at the number of shows KJ incorporated time travel. Yeah, but they feel time travel a little bit differently. Um, at least the ones that I've seen, they don't linger on the the discomfort of being in a different time so much as like Outlander did, for example. So, you know, like in Marry My Husband, The King Eternal Monarch, these ones, and I've watched a few Chinese dramas recently that kind of did the same thing. The the heroine is finds herself in a different time, all right? And then by episode two, she's pretty much like okay with being in that time, and they're moving on to other plot points.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Yeah, it's not lingering on the oh my goodness, how do I do whatever in this society?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Right, which is a little different for me than what I'm used to. But they do have a a lot of a lot more supernatural elements than I thought they were they would have in the job. Like there's so much choice. There's so much choice, it's wonderful. Yeah, but I would say in terms of like tropes that I I gear I'm I'm geared toward, those those are kind of it. Like I I just find that it it makes for some really good tension. And I have I have a few on my list that kind of fit that, but like it's usually like a starting off point. Like the drama often delivers like it goes in a direction.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

So many, so much more I often find than. It'll be like, okay, this is a rom-com, or this is a right, you know, time travel mystery. And you get that, but then you get a lot of other things as well. Like Special Landing on You is technically a romance drama. And I'm like, yes, but it's got like all these other elements to it, which make it so much richer, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

It's like they draw you in, but then they deliver like so much more. I feel like it it's like a much larger return on investment. Yeah, it's pay you pay a dollar, you get back to.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

Yeah, it's like the underpromise, over deliver kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Well, do you have any K dramas that you were like, these are just not for me? Do you have any that just didn't hit the spot for you?

SPEAKER_01 44:43

I would say marry my husband, believe it or not. There, I I I was there, I was invested until maybe like was it two-thirds, maybe half or two-thirds through something like that. And I I can tell you exactly why the wheels fell off for me. Again, competent characters behaving competently. The villains in that show were not competent enough.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

And especially towards the end. And if I was thinking about that show when you're talking about competency and competent villains, because I was like, that was what kind of tanked that one for me, too. I was like, this doesn't, it feels kind of tacked on, like, oh yeah, we need to do this real quick here at the end, and it just didn't work for me. So I'm right there with it.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

They I think they got desperate because the revenge plot and the and the heroine and her the beloved interest were so capable. They they increased their ability to really get their revenge. Get things done, yeah. Yes, and the villains just they couldn't keep up. It was the husband and the the the girlfriend. Um and they they they were they were not the Joker. They were not calculating and cunning in their in their uh responses. They they were playing strict, sloppy defense, if if you think about it. Like even if you watch like a a game of uh you know, football game, sports, soccer game, whatever, it's not fun, unless you're a fan of the team. It's not fun for like an the offense to just sweep the floor with right to for it to be a blowout. You're like yeah, it's like I why am I watching that? And that's what I felt. I felt like in with Mary My Husband, the villains, everything was like they just kept getting hit and hit and hit with all of the how with how capable the the heroine was in her revenge delivery, that they were just getting desperate. They were just taking blind, wild swings to try to land a punch, and it wasn't satisfying anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Yeah. For me, I was there, I was like, I didn't really realize I liked revenge thrillers, but I liked them if it's the main character like taking back her life. Like that for me was the beginning of the show, her learning to become confident in herself and competent. And like once she had that down, I was like, the show could have been a little bit shorter and it would have been perfect, you know?

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

But yeah, but it's yeah, I still love the first part of that. And there was a lot of humor in that one too, even though it's a really dark revenge plot. It had lots of fun characters.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Yeah, it was fun until it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Well, if you had a friend who wanted some recommendations for K drama, what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

I'm gonna recommend Healer, but not because it's such an amazing show. I would recommend it because if you're my friend, you love me and you're gonna love the things that light me up inside, just like I would love if you're really passionate about something, you're gonna, I I would want to know and support you and want to learn more about it, even if it's not my cup of tea. So I would force people, if you were my friend, I would force you to experience this show with me because it means a lot to me and you're my friend and you mean a lot to me, but and that that has to happen.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

And then you can talk about it together, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Yes. And if y'all don't like it, lie. Tell me, like, or we can't be friends. I don't know. But yeah, it's it's just fine. I feel like there's something for everyone. There's there's a lot of like if you like, you know, the wrong the romance is top-notch. The romance is top notch. It's got that Superman Clark Kent thing going on where he's hiding in plain sight. It's got a really interesting mystery suspense element, which I I have to say the reason why I'm one of the many reasons why I'm doing a rewatch is because some of the I'm like, okay, I need to understand certain parts better. Like in terms of like the backstory, like, but it just has like something for for everyone. And I think like if you are looking for for something, there's there's there's enough there. There's enough there that everybody can find something that they'd like.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Yeah, I think so too. I've said that about Crash Landing on You. It has all these different elements, and I think healer's the same way. If you just really want the romance, you can watch the romance and kind of skim through all the yeah, mystery backstory, and it's fine. It's there if you want it, but then there's all the the fun characters and the the secret identities, you know, when he's there in plain sight and all that. So you've got all that. It's so great.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

It's so great. Yeah, and like again, you just you just love seeing like how is he gonna pull this off? He pulls it off in an amazing way that you you you couldn't like you're you're actively trying to finish the story in your brain, like you're trying to figure out how is he going to have a first date that's a that feels like a first date without and keep his identity secret.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

It's a good show. Yeah. Well, are you currently watching anything else besides Healer? Or do you have anything on your watch list that you're looking forward to?

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yes. I I just wrapped up a few Chinese dramas. Love and Sword, which is another bodyguard romance.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

Love and Sword?

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Love and Sword. It's on Vicky. I just and also there was another one, Snowfall, which is another Chinese drama. That was a paranormal one, like kind of vampires. I on my list, I so I'm I'm purposely not starting a new one right now because I am uh due to get my next book back from my editor on Monday. And I do not I'm not don't want your attention divided. I can't compartmentalize my brain space, so I have to focus on that when that comes back. So I mean, re-watching is fine. I can do that. What's on my list? I've heard a lot about oh my gosh, what's it called? Moon Lover, Scarlet Heart, Rio.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

That's on my list. I might start that one next. Okay, I have Goblin on there, but so like it's a it's age gappy, right? Which I'm okay. Like it's a uh she's a she's a she's a a student. She's a student. Snowfall, which I just mentioned, also has a huge age gap where she's a young and I came away feeling like eh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

So sometimes those things work and sometimes they don't, you know, for for me as a viewer, and yeah, I've tried goblin and I just couldn't get into it, but I may go back later because it is one of the big names. Everybody's like, oh, this is an iconic one. So I'm gonna try it again.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

But it's not called Goblin, it's goblin, but not goblin, right? Has it been alternative? Guardian something, yeah, last guardian.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

I but I know what to talk about. And people are shouting at their podcast later right now, going, well, of course. So I'll look that up and get the full for the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

But when you Google Goblin, it the the proper game comes up and and Google knows exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So that it's probably one of those two in terms of my next my next one after I get, you know, some things off of my plate. Because, like I said, there is such an addictive nature to them. And I've also thought about what is it? You just mentioned it. Oh, you mentioned it. It was Extraordinary Attorney Wu. Oh, Extraordinary Attorney Wu, yes. The legal one. Yes. Again, it's in the title how competent she is. It's in the title. It tells you everything you need to know that you are in for a satisfying ride because we're telling you she knows her stuff and how she is stuck.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

That is so true when you watch that show because she's the one every case, because she has this wonderful memory, they'll be talking about something and she'll go, Oh, because of this tiny law that you know, she always can pull out some detail or she remembers something about something someone said, and then she saves the day, you know, and they don't win every case, but she shows herself competent in all throughout the show in almost every episode.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah. It's so satisfying. It's just so it's so fun. Yeah. So I would say those are probably where I'm gonna I'm gonna head next. One one of those in a in a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

I started a it's on Kokowa, so it's a little bit harder to find. It's called Queen of Mystery or Queen of Mysteries. It's an older one and it's basically like Jessica Fletcher type murder she wrote type show. It's a housewife, but she's really she's logical and she has this interest in crime. For some reason, like we don't know in the beginning, we don't know why she can't be a police officer or she wants to, but she either some reason hasn't been able to, or like her family's blocked her or something. I don't know. But she's super competent because she's the one that she goes in and they're like, this is a burglary. There, there's a young substation chief, is I think what they call a police chief there in this little area, and he's out of his depth, and she helps him. And so he calls her and says, Hey, can you come look at this? And she's like, Oh, this isn't a burglary. This is a murder, even though it looks like a and and so no one believes her, and so then they have to, you know, it's like she's but she is super confident, but it's very funny, and it does have some of the kind of not cringy humor, but things that just are like, okay, that was kind of goofy. But yeah, I know it's just dropped in there and then it's out. It's dropped in there and says it's not the whole show, so I can handle that, but uh it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Okay, it's like your breakfast. We're gonna give you a break, we're gonna give you an opportunity to go get your water repo and whatever. Yeah, we're gonna put something up on screen, yeah, and you're gonna come back in 30 seconds and we'll pick up where we left off.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

And then it does have a she gets paired up with this detective who gets demoted. It's like the odd couple pairing where he really doesn't want to work with her, but he eventually kind of comes around to seeing that she's she is smart and able to discern things that he can't see. And uh, so it's a lot of fun. I'm working on it. That's rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Because then you have like that, again, like that competition. It's like and that power dynamic of he thinks he knows more than I do, but I can I I secretly know more, but he won't let you know. It's like it's it's that stuff's fun to watch. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

All right. Well, tell people where they can find more about your books and your writing life.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Sure. My my main place is my website, amyrobinsonromance.com. I have you can on there, you can sign up for my newsletter. My newsletter is my main way that I interact with readers. I send it out every two weeks. But I also am on Patreon as well. I'm on social media, but like reluctantly. And when I'm writing, I'm not really active there. I I'll pop my head out from time to time, but it my my website where you can subscribe, subscribe to my newsletter and my Patreon. Those are the two big places. Cool. All right.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Well, we I'll have those links in the show notes. So thanks for talking to me today about K-drama and healer and compliments. This is so fun. A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

This has been great. Thank you so much for having me. Uh, I'd love to chat again soon. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 55:38

Yeah, sounds good. All right. Well, those links will be in the show notes. And if you enjoyed the podcast, please take a minute to write or review it wherever you listen to podcasts. That will help K Drama fans find the podcast. And we will see you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.